SAM440ep and a "fast" Linux for absolut Linux newb

gerograph · **Posted:** 09 Jan 2009, 19:56

Hi everybody,

I am new to this forum, and I chose it because I thought you could probably help me best. It seems, that you are more familiar with the SAM440ep (I own and run with AmigaOS) than the Debian, Fedora or Ubuntu peoble.

Well to make it short, I donnot know anything about LINUX, and I donnot even know wether a CRUXPPC Installation would be the best thing for me... so your advice is welcome.

I have currently installed AmigaOS and DebianLenny with Gnome on my SAM. I use it with the Parthenope bootloader which enables me to have a dualbootsystem on one HD. This were the instructions whicht enabled me to install:

http://elwoodb.free.fr/articles/Sam440/debian.html

Works great, only one problem:

Opening, moving and resizing of windows is quiet slow/slugish, the responsivness is not to good, so these are my questions:

- Will CruxPPC be better with that ?
- Does another Desktop/Windowmanager help ?

On AmiCygnix IDesk, OpenBox and LXPanel is used, I quiet like that. Is that leaner and usable with Debian ? Can I just install another Desktop/Window environment besides KDE and Gnome for my Debian ? Will Gnome be automatically uninstalled ?

- Or is it just the GFX Driver ? And I can carry on with Debian, if I install a suitable GFX Driver.
If so, where to get it, how to install ?

Thanx for Infos

acrux · **Posted:** 13 Jan 2009, 13:39

gerograph wrote:

Hi everybody,
I am new to this forum, and I chose it because I thought you could probably help me best. It seems, that you are more familiar with the SAM440ep (I own and run with AmigaOS) than the Debian, Fedora or Ubuntu peoble.

sorry for the late reply.
That's right, our developer Cjg is Parthenope author, he did Sam440ep porting to Linux kernel and he built some other distros install-iso for ACube too.

Quote:

Well to make it short, I donnot know anything about LINUX, and I donnot even know wether a CRUXPPC Installation would be the best thing for me... so your advice is welcome.

CRUX is targetted at experienced users who don’t mind doing some work themselves, so if you’re an completely new to Linux-based operating systems or want a zero-effort distribution, CRUX PPC is not the optimal choice.

Quote:

Works great, only one problem:
Opening, moving and resizing of windows is quiet slow/slugish, the responsivness is not to good, so these are my questions:
- Will CruxPPC be better with that ?
- Does another Desktop/Windowmanager help ?

that's not a distro related problem...
avoid Desktop Environment: a lighter Windows Manager like OpenBox or Fluxbox surely helps. A light distro like CRUX PPC could help too.

greetz,

p.s. our server is actually offline (hw failure again).

gerograph · **Posted:** 16 Jan 2009, 21:12

well, I tried different desktop/windowsmanager solution instead of Debian/Gnome. As soon as we come to opaque windows and fast scrolling everything is somehow slow, Graphics are not redrawn fast enough. It gets usable, if I choose a window manager without opaque window moving (like in old AOS Days...).

Could it be an issue of GFX Card driver ? And if so, is this due the Debian and might not appear in CRUX, or is this a general issue ?

Thanx for hints...

acrux · **Posted:** 19 Jan 2009, 00:22

gerograph wrote:

Could it be an issue of GFX Card driver ? And if so, is this due the Debian and might not appear in CRUX, or is this a general issue ?
Thanx for hints...

yes sir, it could be.
I think you aren't using a good enough tuned kernel and xorg too... but anyway you can't wait for a miracle on this kind of hardware.

acrux · **Posted:** 19 Jan 2009, 13:45

gerograph wrote:

Could it be an issue of GFX Card driver ? And if so, is this due the Debian and might not appear in CRUX, or is this a general issue ?
.

if you have a similar scenario (from ATI9250) then, today, you can't do anything better.

Code:

acrux@peg2:~$ glxinfo 
name of display: :0.0
display: :0  screen: 0
direct rendering: Yes
server glx vendor string: SGI
server glx version string: 1.2
server glx extensions:
    GLX_ARB_multisample, GLX_EXT_visual_info, GLX_EXT_visual_rating, 
    GLX_EXT_import_context, GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap, GLX_OML_swap_method, 
    GLX_SGI_make_current_read, GLX_SGIS_multisample, GLX_SGIX_hyperpipe, 
    GLX_SGIX_swap_barrier, GLX_SGIX_fbconfig, GLX_MESA_copy_sub_buffer
client glx vendor string: SGI
client glx version string: 1.4
client glx extensions:
    GLX_ARB_get_proc_address, GLX_ARB_multisample, GLX_EXT_import_context, 
    GLX_EXT_visual_info, GLX_EXT_visual_rating, GLX_MESA_allocate_memory, 
    GLX_MESA_copy_sub_buffer, GLX_MESA_swap_control, 
    GLX_MESA_swap_frame_usage, GLX_OML_swap_method, GLX_OML_sync_control, 
    GLX_SGI_make_current_read, GLX_SGI_swap_control, GLX_SGI_video_sync, 
    GLX_SGIS_multisample, GLX_SGIX_fbconfig, GLX_SGIX_pbuffer, 
    GLX_SGIX_visual_select_group, GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap
GLX version: 1.2
GLX extensions:
    GLX_ARB_get_proc_address, GLX_ARB_multisample, GLX_EXT_import_context, 
    GLX_EXT_visual_info, GLX_EXT_visual_rating, GLX_OML_swap_method, 
    GLX_SGIS_multisample, GLX_SGIX_fbconfig
OpenGL vendor string: Mesa Project
OpenGL renderer string: Software Rasterizer
OpenGL version string: 2.1 Mesa 7.2
OpenGL shading language version string: 1.10
OpenGL extensions:
    GL_ARB_depth_texture, GL_ARB_draw_buffers, GL_ARB_fragment_program, 
    GL_ARB_fragment_program_shadow, GL_ARB_fragment_shader, 
    GL_ARB_half_float_pixel, GL_ARB_imaging, GL_ARB_multisample, 
    GL_ARB_multitexture, GL_ARB_occlusion_query, GL_ARB_pixel_buffer_object, 
    GL_ARB_point_parameters, GL_ARB_point_sprite, GL_ARB_shader_objects, 
    GL_ARB_shading_language_100, GL_ARB_shadow, GL_ARB_shadow_ambient, 
    GL_ARB_texture_border_clamp, GL_ARB_texture_compression, 
    GL_ARB_texture_cube_map, GL_ARB_texture_env_add, 
    GL_ARB_texture_env_combine, GL_ARB_texture_env_crossbar, 
    GL_ARB_texture_env_dot3, GL_ARB_texture_mirrored_repeat, 
    GL_ARB_texture_non_power_of_two, GL_ARB_texture_rectangle, 
    GL_ARB_transpose_matrix, GL_ARB_vertex_buffer_object, 
    GL_ARB_vertex_program, GL_ARB_vertex_shader, GL_ARB_window_pos, 
    GL_EXT_abgr, GL_EXT_bgra, GL_EXT_blend_color, 
    GL_EXT_blend_equation_separate, GL_EXT_blend_func_separate, 
    GL_EXT_blend_logic_op, GL_EXT_blend_minmax, GL_EXT_blend_subtract, 
    GL_EXT_clip_volume_hint, GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array, GL_EXT_convolution, 
    GL_EXT_copy_texture, GL_EXT_depth_bounds_test, GL_EXT_draw_range_elements, 
    GL_EXT_framebuffer_object, GL_EXT_framebuffer_blit, GL_EXT_fog_coord, 
    GL_EXT_gpu_program_parameters, GL_EXT_histogram, GL_EXT_multi_draw_arrays, 
    GL_EXT_packed_depth_stencil, GL_EXT_packed_pixels, 
    GL_EXT_paletted_texture, GL_EXT_pixel_buffer_object, 
    GL_EXT_point_parameters, GL_EXT_polygon_offset, GL_EXT_rescale_normal, 
    GL_EXT_secondary_color, GL_EXT_separate_specular_color, 
    GL_EXT_shadow_funcs, GL_EXT_shared_texture_palette, GL_EXT_stencil_wrap, 
    GL_EXT_subtexture, GL_EXT_texture, GL_EXT_texture3D, 
    GL_EXT_texture_edge_clamp, GL_EXT_texture_env_add, 
    GL_EXT_texture_env_combine, GL_EXT_texture_env_dot3, 
    GL_EXT_texture_lod_bias, GL_EXT_texture_mirror_clamp, 
    GL_EXT_texture_object, GL_EXT_texture_rectangle, GL_EXT_texture_sRGB, 
    GL_EXT_vertex_array, GL_APPLE_packed_pixels, GL_APPLE_vertex_array_object, 
    GL_ATI_blend_equation_separate, GL_ATI_texture_env_combine3, 
    GL_ATI_texture_mirror_once, GL_ATI_fragment_shader, 
    GL_ATI_separate_stencil, GL_IBM_multimode_draw_arrays, 
    GL_IBM_rasterpos_clip, GL_IBM_texture_mirrored_repeat, 
    GL_INGR_blend_func_separate, GL_MESA_pack_invert, GL_MESA_program_debug, 
    GL_MESA_resize_buffers, GL_MESA_texture_array, GL_MESA_ycbcr_texture, 
    GL_MESA_window_pos, GL_NV_blend_square, GL_NV_fragment_program, 
    GL_NV_light_max_exponent, GL_NV_point_sprite, GL_NV_texture_rectangle, 
    GL_NV_texgen_reflection, GL_NV_vertex_program, GL_NV_vertex_program1_1, 
    GL_OES_read_format, GL_SGI_color_matrix, GL_SGI_color_table, 
    GL_SGI_texture_color_table, GL_SGIS_generate_mipmap, 
    GL_SGIS_texture_border_clamp, GL_SGIS_texture_edge_clamp, 
    GL_SGIS_texture_lod, GL_SGIX_depth_texture, GL_SGIX_shadow, 
    GL_SGIX_shadow_ambient, GL_SUN_multi_draw_arrays

3 GLX Visuals
   visual  x  bf lv rg d st colorbuffer ax dp st accumbuffer  ms  cav
 id dep cl sp sz l  ci b ro  r  g  b  a bf th cl  r  g  b  a ns b eat
----------------------------------------------------------------------
0x21 24 tc  0 32  0 r  y  .  8  8  8  8  0 24  8  0  0  0  0  0 0 None
0x22 24 dc  0 32  0 r  y  .  8  8  8  8  0 24  8  0  0  0  0  0 0 None
0x71 32 tc  0 32  0 r  .  .  8  8  8  8  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0 0 None

32 GLXFBConfigs:
   visual  x  bf lv rg d st colorbuffer ax dp st accumbuffer  ms  cav
 id dep cl sp sz l  ci b ro  r  g  b  a bf th cl  r  g  b  a ns b eat
----------------------------------------------------------------------
0x72  0 tc  0 32  0 r  .  .  8  8  8  8  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0 0 None
0x73  0 tc  0 32  0 r  .  .  8  8  8  8  0  0  0 16 16 16 16  0 0 Slow
0x74  0 tc  0 32  0 r  y  .  8  8  8  8  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0 0 None
0x75  0 tc  0 32  0 r  y  .  8  8  8  8  0  0  0 16 16 16 16  0 0 Slow
0x76  0 tc  0 32  0 r  .  .  8  8  8  8  0  0  8  0  0  0  0  0 0 None
0x77  0 tc  0 32  0 r  .  .  8  8  8  8  0  0  8 16 16 16 16  0 0 Slow
0x78  0 tc  0 32  0 r  y  .  8  8  8  8  0  0  8  0  0  0  0  0 0 None
0x79  0 tc  0 32  0 r  y  .  8  8  8  8  0  0  8 16 16 16 16  0 0 Slow
0x7a  0 tc  0 32  0 r  .  .  8  8  8  8  0 24  0  0  0  0  0  0 0 None
0x7b  0 tc  0 32  0 r  .  .  8  8  8  8  0 24  0 16 16 16 16  0 0 Slow
0x7c  0 tc  0 32  0 r  y  .  8  8  8  8  0 24  0  0  0  0  0  0 0 None
0x7d  0 tc  0 32  0 r  y  .  8  8  8  8  0 24  0 16 16 16 16  0 0 Slow
0x7e  0 tc  0 32  0 r  .  .  8  8  8  8  0 24  8  0  0  0  0  0 0 None
0x7f  0 tc  0 32  0 r  .  .  8  8  8  8  0 24  8 16 16 16 16  0 0 Slow
0x80  0 tc  0 32  0 r  y  .  8  8  8  8  0 24  8  0  0  0  0  0 0 None
0x81  0 tc  0 32  0 r  y  .  8  8  8  8  0 24  8 16 16 16 16  0 0 Slow
0x82  0 dc  0 32  0 r  .  .  8  8  8  8  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0 0 None
0x83  0 dc  0 32  0 r  .  .  8  8  8  8  0  0  0 16 16 16 16  0 0 Slow
0x84  0 dc  0 32  0 r  y  .  8  8  8  8  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0 0 None
0x85  0 dc  0 32  0 r  y  .  8  8  8  8  0  0  0 16 16 16 16  0 0 Slow
0x86  0 dc  0 32  0 r  .  .  8  8  8  8  0  0  8  0  0  0  0  0 0 None
0x87  0 dc  0 32  0 r  .  .  8  8  8  8  0  0  8 16 16 16 16  0 0 Slow
0x88  0 dc  0 32  0 r  y  .  8  8  8  8  0  0  8  0  0  0  0  0 0 None
0x89  0 dc  0 32  0 r  y  .  8  8  8  8  0  0  8 16 16 16 16  0 0 Slow
0x8a  0 dc  0 32  0 r  .  .  8  8  8  8  0 24  0  0  0  0  0  0 0 None
0x8b  0 dc  0 32  0 r  .  .  8  8  8  8  0 24  0 16 16 16 16  0 0 Slow
0x8c  0 dc  0 32  0 r  y  .  8  8  8  8  0 24  0  0  0  0  0  0 0 None
0x8d  0 dc  0 32  0 r  y  .  8  8  8  8  0 24  0 16 16 16 16  0 0 Slow
0x8e  0 dc  0 32  0 r  .  .  8  8  8  8  0 24  8  0  0  0  0  0 0 None
0x8f  0 dc  0 32  0 r  .  .  8  8  8  8  0 24  8 16 16 16 16  0 0 Slow
0x90  0 dc  0 32  0 r  y  .  8  8  8  8  0 24  8  0  0  0  0  0 0 None
0x91  0 dc  0 32  0 r  y  .  8  8  8  8  0 24  8 16 16 16 16  0 0 Slow

gerograph · **Posted:** 19 Jan 2009, 15:09

acrux wrote:

yes sir, it could be.
I think you aren't using a good enough tuned kernel and xorg too... but anyway you can't wait for a miracle on this kind of hardware.

Thanx for infos.. but you donnot have to call me "Sir"... Call me Amiga Fanatic or whatever or just "Gero".

The only reason why I ask, is that I remeber that a Linux I installed on an old 400Mhz x86 was more responsive (the GUI at least). O.k. fair enough, that was ages ago...

1. So I just want to make sure that my setup is reasonable fast and that I did not forget anything...

2. Decide wether I can stick to Debian or have to install e.g. CRUX for a major speed up (in GUI things..)

CONCLUSION as far as I understood:

Using a lean Linux Distro + a lean Desktop (like CRUX + XFCE) might make it a bit faster than Debian + XFCE. But a major speed up will only come from a proper gfx driver in a new kernel... So I wait for a better kernel and I am satisfied with what I have...

Do you guys agree ?? Thanx for the infos...

nullpointer · **Posted:** 19 Jan 2009, 16:44

hello Amiga Fanatic Gero ;)

I personally believe that unresponsiveness in GUI on Sam440EP is due to the lack of cpu cache on the AMCC 440EP processor, that is an automation control processor, not a general purpose processor.
Furthermore binaries on all distributions are compiled with generic optimizations, that make use of cache, while on AMCC 440EP the only effective optimization is -Os, optimize for size.

Latest ATI Drivers are outperformed by a bit older ones, but that's not that dramatic on daily 2D desktop use. I think xfce is not that lean, maybe fluxbox would be better, or maybe u should try to disable all sort of effects on xfce (opaque window moving etc).

The speed improvement you could get from switching to crux-ppc is really only a matter of personal feeling; i feel that my crux-ppc on my 5 yrs old powerbook is quite faster than debian sid on my athlonX2-64 4600+ workstation@work. Bootup, openoffice and firefox/iceweasel seamonkey/iceape start much faster, but someone else could as well feel different responsiveness/speed in other situations.

So maybe you should really give Crux-PPC a try, but consider that Crux is targeted to the experienced GNU/Linux user, and that you're going to use it on an architecture/machine that are harder to use and configure than mainstream PC hardware. This means lots of fun, but also having to spend lots of time learning things, understanding them and trying...

so... have fun ;)

gerograph · **Posted:** 20 Jan 2009, 11:43

Quote:

Latest ATI Drivers are outperformed by a bit older ones, but that's not that dramatic on daily 2D desktop use. I think xfce is not that lean, maybe fluxbox would be better, or maybe u should try to disable all sort of effects on xfce (opaque window moving etc).

I tried fluxbox as well... it is fast as standalone, but I miss all the other pieces like a menu/startpanel, desktop and a filebrowser.
So I tried to use Fluxbox in Gnome which doesn't speed things up, afterwards I tried with just Fluxbox and iPanel. But there I could not figure out how to change the menus (Gnome/Debian part with openoffice etc..) Somehow he takes the definiton from Gnome or generates it himself.. ??? For desktop/filebrowser I just started nautilus --browser. Thats fine, because I get a window like desktop. Probably I can also figure out how to autostart nautilus.. but did not have a look, yet.
How ever it still doesn't speed up menuhandling and scrolling for e.g. in OpenOffice..

So honestly, i think xfce4 is a good option, when switching of opaque windows etc.... not so much configuring etc.

I will try crux as well, but have to get a nullmodem cable, because CD doesn't boot...

Thanx for infos

CRUX PPC

A lightweight GNU/Linux distribution for PowerPC!

SAM440ep and a "fast" Linux for absolut Linux newb

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